Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

topic posted Mon, February 11, 2008 - 5:02 PM by  Kelly
Tolkien Estate Sues New Line Cinema

By ALEX VEIGA Associated Press Writer

Feb 11th, 2008 | LOS ANGELES -- The estate of "Lord of the Rings" creator J.R.R. Tolkien is suing the film studio that released the trilogy based on his books, claiming the company hasn't paid it a penny from the estimated $6 billion the films have grossed worldwide.

The suit, filed Monday, claims New Line was required to pay 7.5 percent of gross receipts to Tolkien's estate and other plaintiffs, who contend they only received an upfront payment of $62,500 for the three movies before production began.

The writer's estate, a British charity dubbed The Tolkien Trust, and original "Lord of the Rings" publisher HarperCollins filed the lawsuit against New Line Cinema in Los Angeles Superior Court. If successful, it could block the long-awaited prequel to the films.

Robert Pini, a spokesman for Time Warner Inc.'s New Line, declined to comment.

The films — 2001's "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring," 2002's "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers," and 2003's "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" — have reaped nearly $6 billion combined worldwide, according to the complaint.

The estimate includes everything from box office receipts to revenue from sales of DVDs and other products.

The plaintiffs seek more than $150 million in compensatory damages, unspecified punitive damages and a court order giving the Tolkien estate the right to terminate any rights New Line may have to make films based on other works by the author, including "The Hobbit."

Such an order would scuttle plans by New Line to make a two-film prequel based on "The Hobbit." "Rings" trilogy director Peter Jackson has already signed on to serve as executive producer on the project, which is tentatively slated to begin production next year, with releases planned for 2010 and 2011.

"The Tolkien trustees do not file lawsuits lightly, and have tried unsuccessfully to resolve their claims out of court," Steven Maier, an attorney for the Tolkien estate based in Britain, said in a statement. "New Line has not paid the plaintiffs even one penny of its contractual share of gross receipts despite the billions of dollars of gross revenue generated by these wildly successful motion pictures."

Maier also claims the film studio has blocked the Tolkien estate and the other plaintiffs from auditing the receipts of the last two films.

The lawsuit claims J.R.R. Tolkien established a trust through which he signed a film deal in 1969 with United Artists. After Tolkien's death, his heirs created the charity in the author's name.

Meanwhile, the original agreement terms were picked up by Hollywood producer Saul Zaentz, who produced an animated film in 1978 based on the "Rings" books, and eventually licensed the rights to make live-action films to New Line.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs said they have spent the years since the movies hit theaters trying to negotiate a settlement with New Line.

Other disputes over the film's earnings have surfaced in recent years.

In 2004, Zaentz sued New Line, claiming the studio cheated him out of $20 million in royalties from the film trilogy, which he optioned to New Line for a percentage of the movies' profits.

He and the film studio reached an out-of-court settlement a year later.

Jackson's production company also tangled with New Line in 2005 over profits from the films. A lawsuit was settled last year.

posted by:
Kelly
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

    Wed, March 12, 2008 - 9:44 AM
    This is both funny and sad to me. I say make New Line pay every red cent they owe.
    • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

      Wed, March 12, 2008 - 2:02 PM
      I'm not sure if it is related or not, but New Line is history. They are being absorbed into Warner Brothers. Perhaps it is because New Line had lost so much credibility because of their "creative accounting" (aka screwing everyone they could).
      • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

        Wed, March 12, 2008 - 2:48 PM
        > Perhaps it is because New Line had lost so much credibility because of their "creative accounting" (aka screwing everyone they could).

        It's called Hollywood Accounting for a reason: everyone in the movie business does it.
        • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

          Fri, March 14, 2008 - 12:38 AM
          No doubt you are correct. But, New Line got sued by Jackson and the Tolkien Estate... I guess maybe I'm more likely to hear about it being such a fan, but I don't hear about that many cases where the studio gets sued by key contributors. it just makes me think they were worse than other studios.

          Well, I'm hopeful that the upshot of the change will be that the Tolkien estate gets what they deserve out of it and that PJ gets to be involved with the Hobbitt movie(s).
          • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

            Fri, March 14, 2008 - 11:07 AM
            > Well, I'm hopeful that the upshot of the change will be that the Tolkien estate gets what they deserve out of it and that PJ gets to be involved with the Hobbitt movie(s).

            Yeah, I think we all hope that. :-)
            • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

              Fri, March 14, 2008 - 4:06 PM
              <Yeah, I think we all hope that. :-)>

              Nope. I know this is heretical in some circles, but I think Jackson royally screwed up on Return of the King and I found the rumor mentioned awhile ago that Sam Raimi was approached to direct The Hobbit verrrry intriguing.
              • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                Wed, April 16, 2008 - 3:01 PM
                Why is ROTK so bad? I'm curious.
                • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                  Wed, April 16, 2008 - 3:59 PM
                  Not to be condescending, but have you read the books or just seen the movie, Smoke? I ask because it has to do with how much detai I'd have to answer your query with.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                    Wed, April 16, 2008 - 4:08 PM
                    I have read the books many times, as well as other Tolkien works, and I would be interested in what you think was "royally screwed up," in as much detail as you feel necessary. I would also be interested, if you are so inclined, in how you would have done it differently.
                    • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                      Thu, April 17, 2008 - 2:27 PM
                      Well, I've gone on a bit about this in this group before but that was awhile ago, so to recap-

                      Jackson's biggest fuckup was having Frodo push Gollum over the edge in Mount Doom. It literally rips the moral center out of Tolkien's work. Gollum is the one who fulfilled the quest, albeit accidentally - if it wasn't for him, Sauron would have won. Every major character in the books - Frodo, Gandalf, Sam, and Aragorn - had Gollum at their mercy at one point or another, and felt pity for his wretched, miserable life, and so spared his life no matter how prudent or just it would have been to kill him. And that mercy and compassion is why good triumphed.

                      Now maybe Jackson felt that Frodo needed to be more active at the end, but at least he could have kept that dialogue between Frodo and Sam while they're waiting for the lava to rise and engulf them, where Frodo explains to Sam (and and the readers who don't quite get it) that it was Gollum who succeded in the end, and they should forgive him. But Jackson cut that bit out - why, I really can't imagine.

                      So instead of this epic with an intensley moral center, Jackson's LOTR is really not much more than a well-wriitten adventure story. Okay, maybe not that bad because he's true enough to Tolkien in other respects, but I can't believe someone who loves Tolkien as much as Jackson claims to missed such an important point.

                      Also, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields was pretty lame. Almost nothing like the book - and I thought it was really the climax of the first have of ROTK - and in the end the Dead just get used like this video-game smart bomb, complete with unimpressive special effects. Why spend five minutes with Legolas showing off what a ninja he is when all anybody had to do is sit back and let the ghosts kill everyone?

                      Not as big but still annoying was the transformation of Denethor from this once great man who tragically fell into despair and madness into this buffoonish stereotypical Stupid Authority Figure.

                      Other stuff bugged me but was less important - the almost complete erasing Eomer from the story, the fact that Gondor and it's people were just cardboard cutouts, no personality at all, just the obligatory Human Kingdom (tm). That kind of thing.

                      What would I have done differently? All sorts of stuff. Wouldn't have made Frodo such a wimp in the first couple of movies for one thing, so it wasn't necessary to show he had a pair by pushing Gollum of the cliff in the end.
                      • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                        Thu, April 17, 2008 - 3:02 PM
                        Thanks for recapping for those of us who weren't in this forum when the movies were coming out. I often think it is foolish to adapt from one medium to another, because something is always lost. I would almost prefer that they write a completely different story in the same world.

                        > Jackson's biggest fuckup was having Frodo push Gollum over the edge in Mount Doom.

                        I can see why you would have a problem if Frodo pushed Gollum. I've watched the movie many times, and it has never once occurred to me that Frodo pushed Gollum. They fight, they struggle, they both go over the edge. Who is pushing, who is pulling? Is there a specific source of the fall, or is it an accident? I guess I just saw it as both falling over the edge accidentally in their struggle and one grabs on as they go over and other grabs the ring.

                        I do appreciate your position and will take another look when I next watch the films.

                        The books and the movies are different things. To me the best scene of the movies, is the bit right after Gollum bites the ring off Frodo's hand, when Frodo gets up with that look of determination. That look, that says "I will get that ring back, I must!", that look, to me, is the most powerful thing in all three movies. It captures what the ring is all about, to me. It's certainly the best acting of Elijah Woods' career.
                        • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                          Thu, April 17, 2008 - 7:29 PM
                          I'm probably exaggerating when I say Frodo pushed Gollum over - but my point is that in the books Gollum very clearly fell into Mount Doom all on his own while Frodo was helpless, while in the movie the fight took them over the edge. Personally, I think Gollum dancing with insane glee on the edge and then falling into the pit is more powerful than a fight scene, but I can see why Jackson might have thought otherwise. BUT, he still could have kept Frodo's lines about how it was Gollum who fulfilled the Quest in the end, and for some reason that I can't fathom at all chose to cut that.

                          I realize that the books and the movies are different things and I don't mind or even like a number of the changes Jackson made, such as putting Arwen in Glorindel's role in FOTR and expanding her character, but as I said this one change is pretty much cutting out the ethical soul of Tolkien's work.

                          BTW, do you have any opinions on my other criticism's of the ROTK movie?
                          • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                            Fri, April 18, 2008 - 11:40 AM
                            > BTW, do you have any opinions on my other criticism's of the ROTK movie?

                            The Battle of Pelenore Fields/Ghosts, I can totally see your point, except that even Tolkien had the arrival of the Black Ships as the miraculous end of the battle. Neither method of ending the battle invalidates Eowyn and the Witch King nor the Ride of the Rohirrim, etc. But I do agree that the Legolas scene and the ghosts were for Jackson and movie audiences' sake. It makes the movie fun, but takes away authenticity.

                            Denethor is hard to pull off. I think he was handled better than your summation, but I don't think there is really a good way to establish how great he once was. It's a difficult part.

                            > Other stuff bugged me but was less important - the almost complete erasing Eomer from the story, the fact that Gondor and it's people were just cardboard cutouts, no personality at all, just the obligatory Human Kingdom (tm). That kind of thing.

                            These are the things that bothered me most, Eomer mostly in the second movie where he should have had a much larger part.

                            The thing that bothered me most about the movies was the numbers. Numbers were dramatically changed everywhere, distances, time, numbers of soldiers. 300 soldiers at Helm's Deep?! Gondor had no troops ready? How far is Osgiliath from Minas Tirith? How much time was there between Frodo getting stabbed at Weathertop and arriving at the river? Jackson took Tolkien's meticulously worked out details and chucked most of them overboard.

                            Also, I really hate that idiotic scene in Osgiliath when the Gondorians wait until the orcs have gotten past them before attacking. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They knew the orcs were there, sitting ducks on the river, why not shoot as many as you can while they are still in the boats? Only proves Denethor's point that Faramir is not worthy to lead.

                            Still, having watched all the "making of" documentaries, I know it could have been much worse. Sauron taking physical form to fight Aragorn? I shudder to think.
                            • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                              Fri, April 18, 2008 - 6:58 PM
                              <The thing that bothered me most about the movies was the numbers. Numbers were dramatically changed everywhere, distances, time, numbers of soldiers. 300 soldiers at Helm's Deep?! Gondor had no troops ready? How far is Osgiliath from Minas Tirith? How much time was there between Frodo getting stabbed at Weathertop and arriving at the river? Jackson took Tolkien's meticulously worked out details and chucked most of them overboard.

                              Also, I really hate that idiotic scene in Osgiliath when the Gondorians wait until the orcs have gotten past them before attacking. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They knew the orcs were there, sitting ducks on the river, why not shoot as many as you can while they are still in the boats? Only proves Denethor's point that Faramir is not worthy to lead. >

                              Yeah, Tolkien knew about war- from both personal experience in WW1 and from studying classics like the Iliad that were standard elements of education in his day. He knew how the tactics of ancient battles worked, and he was very aware of the importance of things like how long it takes to march from here to there and how much food you have to carry along the way.
                              • Re: Tolkien Estate Suing New Line Cinema

                                Thu, May 1, 2008 - 10:29 AM
                                > Yeah, Tolkien knew about war- from both personal experience in WW1 and from studying classics like the Iliad that were standard elements of education in his day. He knew how the tactics of ancient battles worked, and he was very aware of the importance of things like how long it takes to march from here to there and how much food you have to carry along the way.

                                Yup, all that rich detail and literally years of thought on those details, just chucked out the window.